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Here on Classic we understand that sometimes life can get difficult and we struggle. We may need to receive advice, vent, know that we are not alone in our difficult times, or even just have someone listen to what's going on in our lives. In light of these times, we have created the support threads below that are open to all of our members at any time.
Post by neverstarstar on May 16, 2020 12:00:13 GMT -5
I think that the deities and powers are flashy, creative ways to shake things up. I think they are also potentially polarizing. You will get people who love the lore, love the gods, and will join and be happy. You'll also get some who want nothing to do with any of it. It's not the safe organization of a clan, in my opinion. It can be a bit exclusive. And it's sometimes muddled and hard to follow. I also think we need to look at the potential divide you create. Would everyone want to be in a thread where a cat can read thoughts? No. Or can cast spells? Nada. What about one that can make my character fall in love with them? No thanks. (all are exaggerated examples) But the point stands: putting cat's on different levels of ability and intelligence so sharply, I think you accidentally alienate some plots. There is also a spill over effect, which I know has been mentioned. Start powers in one clan and it will spread. Cats change clans, plots involve other clans, leaders change their positions on powers to stay "with the times", etc. You can't expect people with magical cats to stay within the confines of clan boundaries, crossclan plotting is too popular for that.
Also consider: Some people join this site because it's a WARRIORS roleplay. If we lean to far into this kinda thing, are we even that anymore? Are we then not just a roleplay site that just so happens to be cats? And now it's become strange that traditional clans stay traditional. I'm not saying "alright, revert back to normalcy, nothing fun here". And I'm not trying to seem uninterested in what people are building here, but I do think there are ramifications unthought of. Which is why guidelines, clarification on the godmoding rule, and a vote all seem like very reasonable, important things to do. Here we could consider our source material in terms of religions, powers, etc. I would say, to stay on pace with the Warriors, if it's canon it's free game to start as far as guidelines go.
@vortex + everyone There was a time when all names on Classic took on a cerebral, elevated theme and it made every cat seem either very smart or very unfortunate. We've since gone a bit more towards traditional (which is my lean anyway) but I don't think there was anything wrong with the more avant-garde names. Strictly speaking, I'd agree it's godmoding.
However, just the very nature of the Warriors Books make some sense of godmoding unavoidable. If we went though everything and very strictly regulated names, appearance, livability, intellect, you'd delete most if not all the characters currently on Classic.
We have a wide range of creativity on Classic that needs to be celebrated, we must be careful to preserve the uniqueness that makes us, us. So yes, we have names like "Toysoldier" (I don't remember whose cat this was but I do remember being completely in love with the name) which aren't technically correct. But without that allowance we may destroy the creativity of an individual in respect to their character building on Classic. And, we do have it in rule 7 that "A leader may deny a cat for any number of reasons, including unrealistic names." though I don't remember the last time I saw someone denied for a name. I probably was pushing it with Demonicchicken but Cleav allowed it
Edited May 16, 2020 12:01:29 GMT -5 By neverstarstar
Okay, but again just to make this clear there are NO power manipulations (No breathing fire), mental powers (No mind control), no godly powers (atom control). You're not the first to mention it, but I just want to be real clear that like that is NOT allowed in the Enchanted Forest because that would be too insane! lol
I'm not sure if you read the Enchanted Forest rules on the ForestClan page because between that page and reading the 10 pages and all these posts that would be a LOT (And if you did read all that I almost feel like I should give you a reward or something xD). So I just want to reiterate that we do have written out plans in place to ensure that the Enchanted Forest does not impact the surrounding clans who do not wish to participate. Elements do not work outside the clans, nor can anyone utter anything about elements outside the ForestClans. This is so if Forest Clans do plot with an outside clan none of their elemental plots are dragged in with a cross clan plot.
I DO understand the concern though, but like I said, I want to try something new. Because I have theorized how it can effect Classic, but I can only guess as well as the rest of you. I want to observe and see how it truly impacts Classic. That way if I notice any concerning factors during the trial run I can make changes and if the concerns are too unmovable than it is just a trial run and we can easily pull the plug at the end.
ALSO, NO, DON'T YOU START, DEMONICCHICKEN IS A GREAT NAME AND I LOVE YOUR CHARACTER, HE'S BEAUTIFUL!! xD
Deleted
POSTEDMay 16, 2020 15:35:47 GMT -5 TO Ideas & Suggestions
hello all - i just wanted to check in and say that i am keeping up with the thread and have read every one of your responses. i'm not avoiding you all, i just want to make sure that i'm replying in the best possible mindset / headspace / etc, which i dont currently have because i've had a fever of around 100 for the last two days LOL. i am starting meds today, and hopefully will be back to normal in a few days so i can respond to all of the various things i've noticed.
however, while i'm here, i do have a few quick things before i peace out until i'm feeling a little better.
racer most of the things in your responses, i'll get to when i'm feeling a little better. i do want to say one thing for big sure and then one aside. in your section about reserving activity, i was taken aback because it felt like you were missing my point. however, i went back and read the actual language that i used and it was clumsy and paid too much mind to the "oTHER CLANS DON'T HAVE A CHANCE" and not enough time on the "leaders with desperately struggling clans may see the fact that these elements raise activity and feel like they have to add them" bit. sunclan does great work regardless of the Sun God. i don't want to take away from any of that, and i apologize about my abrasive language i used here. really, the point i was trying to get across (and really didnt at all) was that other clans might not get the nuance of the sun god / moon god / etc aren't the only reasons that activity exists in some places and doesn't in others, and might jump on the bandwagon, but take it one step further to make sure their god draws more attention, and it could go on and on until we have hyperpowered deities in all of the clans and each day a god burns down part of the forest, which i feel like is not ideal. i also wanna say that sunclan got the call outs simply because they were the best examples. i just wanted to reiterate that i/we didn't mean it as a "let's attack sunclan in every possible way."
this is no longer to just racer, but to everyone
i also talked to honey about the sun god, and we talked about transparency. average users don't know that honey offered to pass him down, that consent is gotten upon each interaction, etc. the two of us privately talked about how that's part of the problem we have here, because changes are made and everything happens behind a curtain which leaves everyone else completely unaware of how the decision making process happens, what exactly the limitations are, etc. that's what i was trying to get to in one of my suggestions about user voting. it's not necessarily that i think that we have to vote every time, or that all users should be totally in favor, or really anything like that, but that the users should be 100% informed, have some time for comments, etc because transparency with what's going on is vital. i don't know that i actually articulated any of that in the document, and i think that's my bad. i was so concerned about every possible way to convince folks that maybe we should put some limitations on it / etc that i missed nuance in my writing, and for that i apologize.
ian : says they aren't going to reply in depth also ian : writes a short essay in response.
i have plenty of more thoughts and reflections that have come from this thread. if you want to chat about ideas in a less formal way, my skype is open and i feel less badly about sounding fever delusional on there LOL. otherwise, i'll continue to read what you all have to say and formulate where i stand on them so that i can post another ten page essay i mean response when i'm feeling a little better. i just felt like it was a lil cowardly to post a manifesto and disappear without any sort of transparency on why.
Hey yall. Just popping in to give my opinions and such.
In my honest opinion, change is a thing to embrace! For years, this site has been strict on being natural with cats and more realistic. However, as most of us have grown into adults, our minds and imaginations grew with it! Every single one of us on this site has a passion for creativity! That is the reason we role play and the very heart of a good role play! PASSION and CREATIVITY! After a while of roleplaying realistic characters, eventually the creativity dies down. If you limit your imagination, you will never know the extent of your imagination! I am extremely proud of Faith right now! She is being so bold as to bring this idea to the site! Because it is so out of the ordinary! It is change and so many of us are hesitant on change! Which is totally normal. It's okay to feel nervous about bringing something new into something old. But as the site grows, so does the role playing. Sometimes to spice things up, we need to open our minds to other possibilities and ideas! Continuing with the same stuff over and over can dull our minds, leave us craving for something more exciting. That's what our brains do! They want to be fed, they want to be worked! And if we aren't expanding, we aren't feeding our brains or seeing what this site could become! Honestly, sticking to the same routine gets extremely boring and I personally get super excited when something new happens! Because my brain craves excitement and challenges! I'm sure I'm not the only one!
My goal as Nightclan leader is to bring change to Nightclan. Yeah, I don't have any experience and I have made a couple mistakes as leader already! But I believe in change and I believe in the amazing imaginations every one of you have! Each of you is unique and each of you view the world entirely different! Imagine the roleplays we can have if we just break the chains that are holding us back! Like for example, No Powers! Thats keeping our imaginations limited! This is what I have been trying to bring to Nightclan. To give role players a new perspective, a new chance to create things they didn't know they were capable of creating! Now, all of this could fail! It could happen! BUT it says a lot about this site when we had the option to overhaul and everyone chose to keep the clans we have! Because there is soooo much history in this site and in every clan! It's amazing how far this site has come and how it has grown! No one wanted to give up on that! And the changes this site has gone through! With all the changes and growth, someone had to step forward and change something in order for this site to have grown! There's no growth without change!
Take a look at Sunclan for an example. Honeystorm had a brilliant idea to transform Sunclan from what it was to what it is now! She took a chance and sculpted Sunclan into her vision and created something amazing!! And something so different and out of the ordinary! She saw a way to make Sunclan better and she took the reins and ran with it! And look how successful Sunclan is! It's one of the most thriving clans! And everyone loves it! And even though Honeystorm stepped down, Sunclan continues to thrive because of the change she created! Racer may have changed a few things to fit Littlestar but she continued with the beliefs, the religion, the territory, and the overall way of life that Honeystorm had created! THIS is what we need in this site! We need to embrace the change and help it grow!! We can learn a lot from Sunclan! And we can learn a lot from both Honeystorm and Racer!
Like I said before, this may not work. And like Faith said, it's only a trial run. But how do we know it won't work unless we try? I'm asking you all to keep an open mind and do your best not to close it just because your concerned about change. Yes, this is different and some may be hesitant! But this could be really fun! I think it is definitely worth a trial run! I'm really looking forward to this!
EDIT: I would also like to point out that just because we have cats with supernatural powers, doesn't necessarily mean it's godmoding BECAUSE each of the cats are not invincible. It clearly states in the rules that the character cannot be invincible. And any cat with powers had a weakness. SOMETHING can kill them or weaken them so that any mortal cat with quick thinking can actually win against a cat with supernatural powers.
@ian no hard feelings, really. I mostly brought it up because in the past, other people have tried to put down SunClan because of our activity level and that is how I interpreted it the first time I read over your document. When I went back a few hours later and re-read it, I figured out that was probably not you intention. Again the only reason I even mentioned it in my reply was because other member of the SC team might have read it in a similar manner that I had. I apologize if my response came off wrong, it has been a long week
ya girl is back but unlike ian she doesn't have a good reason for not being here LMAO trust me i've been reading this thread and nodding along but i'm horrifically shy online i should probably go to the doctor or something
...Anyway, for a more, uh, professional response—thank you for the discussion! I've finally found my calling in life and it's the in-depth discussion of roleplay mechanics and lore on Warrior Cats roleplay boards. I have a lot of thoughts, but some come to me more fully-formed than others, so I'll post those ones first FAITH I KNOW I HAVEN'T REPLIED TO YOUR MESSAGE ON SKYPE BUT JUST KNOW IT'S COMING AND IT'S GOING TO BE WORTH THE DAYS OF WAITING xD
Another note, on one of the sections in Disenchanted with Enchantment; it mentions i n the section "What is godmoding?" with Tony Bonanza Fofanza Xxxtreme. It states that "Tony Bonanza Fofanza Xxxtreme is probably not a realistic name for a twelve year-old boy in a medieval setting." There are so many unrealistic Warrior names on the site. I understand if it's an ex-kittypet, but a Clan born cat doesn't know what a mirror is, and quite frankly cats don't know what a reflection is unless its a really smart cat. And even with a kittypet, there is only going to be so many twoleg words a cat is going to be able to retain. Is this not also godmoding, by making a cats vocabulary vaster than it would be?
Okay so this is an unnecessarily long response that is comprised of me being entirely too pedantic about the names thing, BUT I was already thinking about this kind of thing a few months ago so it only took me like fifteen minutes to write so its #worth posting
In the spirit of total honesty, I gave Tony extra weird attributes primarily in my attempt to create some semblance of bad humour so that someone might be more inclined to read the doc the whole way through xD Tony’s stupid name isn’t what creates a power imbalance between characters, it’s his ill-explained psychic powers and giant anachronism of a gun—the very existence of those two things forces some kind of consequence on a character if that character doesn’t act a particular way around Tony. (AKA you can’t lie to Tony because he will know and he will shoot you. That’s the kind of thing we’re talking about in the doc—you can’t take the Clan with powers on in a fight, because the chance the Clan with the powers loses is negligible. The lack of actual invincibility may not matter as much, because would if you were a warrior cat [and god I wish I was], would you want to fight a battle that has a 2% chance of victory? Even if you did, would your Clanmates want to? Would your Clan leader want to?)
I don’t really mind when cats do things like raising an eyebrow, smirking, singing. I’ll probably raise an eyebrow of my own and my inner critic will go ECH NO HUMAN BAD CAT GOOD but I mean, we’re using them for literary purposes, in the end. We use them as dialogue tags so that we can convey emotion, we use them for scene blocking because there’s nothing worse than coming into a thread and feeling like oh God, where am I, where are you, where are we standing, oh God, etc. In my opinion if we’re going to get on someone’s case about a character knowing what their reflection is, then we’re going to have to stop writing out dialogue entirely, ‘cuz it’s like well let’s not half-ass it, let’s take this whole realism thing all the way. Then if we wanted to take it to its logical extreme we’d all have to stop roleplaying entirely and burn all our Warriors books but jokes on y’all I already accidentally set my copy of Rising Storm on fire like seven years ago.
Taking the name example to its extreme: I used to roleplay a cat named Chinadoll, a former loner who joined a Clan and gave herself a warrior name to fit. Without knowing anything else about that character, is there anything we can infer about her from her name that might suggest some kind of power imbalance between her and the other characters in the forest—specifically, a power imbalance that would likely railroad another character down a particular course of action? She knows what a china doll is, so that suggests some familiarity with kittypet or Twoleg culture. Is that anything? Sort of—she might have knowledge that other cats don’t, but it’s probably not going to be a matter of life or death, or be at all useful except for in a handful of extremely specific scenarios. I can’t really think of a Warriors name that would give a cat that kind of power.
Anyway, going back to Tony—applying the same thought process to his name that I gave Chinadoll’s...they’re in a medieval setting, so I guess it could imply Tony’s a time traveller? That would be big, but probably only equally as big as the giant gun he carries around that he’ll kill you with if you so much as look at him funny. You could also probably make the argument that other characters in the setting should be scratching his head at their name and anyone who doesn’t is roleplaying unrealistically, but then I think we’re taking it too far, because that’s one of those internal thought processes that happens automatically, or even subconsciously, and if we wrote all those into our posts then every single reply on this site would be like five hundred words longer. And these days I can’t even hit five hundred words over a single thread.
There have been plenty of times where I feel a member has broken a rule such as respect, spam, names, but unless a rule outright says anything it's not a Classic rule and there's little we can do. I don't define god modding because it's on the page. Unless your character is invincible or you are rping a persons character being hurt or killed or a kit taking on full grown warriors, it's not against the rules of god modding. I have personally ensured that every elemental has a weakness. As for Bloodyrondo we already said at the beginning of this thread and in the document that the plot rule is fine. Bloodyrondo changed during a plot, it's perfectly within Classic's rules. Man, I’m being really pedantic again, but if I’m reading you right and it’s only those three things that are against the rules, then we should probably rewrite the rule, because I can think of so many unacceptable things that aren’t covered here—I mean, obviously godmoding isn’t Pokemon and we can’t catch ‘em all, but under this rule we can just take control of other people’s characters and as long as we don’t roleplay them getting hurt or killed then it’s fine. Was I on the admin team when the main rules got rewritten? Or was that the staff rules? If I was then you can blame me for this xD
Ok I’m making this post from my phone after reading everything. My eyes hurt from staring at the screen so I apologize for not proof reading before posting. I wrote this as I was reading so it’s kind of stream of consciousness with my questions and comments. Feel free to call me out on something taht got answered already and I over looked or asked again or whatever.
So I’m reading your google doc that Ian and Komi posted As well as everyone’s post, and I have some questions and comments/concerns. I’m glad you guys brought this stuff up. I wouldn’t have even thought about it but your right. There’s elements of other clans even I don’t understand and I’ve been here a while. So maybe there’s elements to clans that others don’t understand that are new. Such as our religions, culture, history, etc. so here are my questions and concerns from my reading.
Why powers in general? Won’t they get carried away? People develop them further just like they do everything in role play. Will it turn people away from role playing with a certain cat or clan? Or encourage them? Are we not semi-realistic? My idea deities and regions are behind the scenes things. They allow depth to your character and role play but don’t necessarily have to influence everyone. Such as in the books. The tribe believed in their religion and the clans accepted that, but they never fought over religion and their respective religions do not fight with each other. (Referencing the AL Wanheda deity that got eaten by the Sun God here) Does that make sense?
If we’re gonna have powers limit of one or two cats per person and every person should have to have their powers approved so as to make sure they don’t get too crazy as well as to make sure they won’t have huge influences such as fire breathing or being able to drown someone with water. And that they have a weakness or kryptonite.
I don’t agree with having demigods or Demi goddesses. It’s unfair and shouldn’t be done. Not every role player is going to get the chance to have the child of a god. And gods shouldn’t be having children with others anyway. Between gods maybe. Like the sun god and moon goddess have the earth god (plants, harvest, idk) as their child who then belongs to another clan (say DayClan). But taht would just be another element fo the religion. Such as Greek mythology without Demi children. Those who have these Demi gods can abuse them and use their powers to do bad. But also good. What was Pandora’s role? I don’t know so I’m asking but to my understanding they were a child of the Sun God. Can those powers be passed on? If so then it’ll be like be related to Deal. Eventually everyone will have them and they’ll no longer be special or plot based alone.
I personally don’t understand the religion or elements of SunClan or MoonClan. I’ve tried reading them and role playing with them but I guess I just don’t understand it enough. I don’t get why someone so role playing the actual god or why the powers are being passed around like candy.
I personally voted for Pride Clan. Did I know all about it? No. I voted for it because I went “well they’re an alliance it’s be nice to keep some of the old ways so sure that’s be a nice spin on things.” It seemed like a bridge between the two new worlds we were facing, new clans or the old.
When did the Sun God eat Wanheda? I know who the last staff of AL was. I was apart fo it so I know it wasn’t us who made that decision for it to be eaten. And if it was, I knew nothing about it as the Medicine Cat staff member.
Honey You say the Sun God is equal in power to StarClan and the other deities but I personally don’t feel that way. He’s involved in everything and a center point in every plot of SunClan’s (which i get since he’s their religious figure) but it comes off as “too fear him” or be killed. Or at least that’s how it feels. If that makes sense? Like my cat Flawedperspective fears him but follows him because of fear of being offed.
I also see that Pandora isn’t a god cat but then you counterdic yourself by saying she’s had powers on more than one occasion. Sure they were for plots but it was always the same cat. She continues to receive powers when others weren’t allowed them. It’s a little unfair that the same cat is always involved. I understand it’s apart fo a plot but could someone else have been chosen to be a teacher to DayClan for the Sun God religion? Was it offered out to others? Was it just her and bloody who went?
When I keep seeing the same cats involved in plots like that, it feels clique. Like they were asked and only them. Only they get to be major figures in the plots because they’re friends or high ranking people or related to high ranking people. In the past plots where people did that for the Dark Forest, StarClan, etc. were there tryouts or selected?
I do agree with racer that I love the fact that each leader can change the clan how they see fit. I’ve personally worked hard with my staff to make changes to WIC in order to try and improve our activity. But I worry sometimes that others do t understand the vision I’ve created or find it unfair or just don’t like it. There are very few actual role players in WIC aside form my staff and we continue to lose more each AC so it makes me worried that people don’t like how things are run or done. Maybe it’ll help if we make our changes in stages? That way they’re easier to adjust too? Could this be a problem? We make the changes so quickly and fast that others may feel overwhelmed.
What’s going on in the other clans during the enchanted Forest Plot? It was mentioned somewhere (I’ve read everything and lost track of if someone said it or if it was in the original doc) that’s plots/role play have a ripple effect on other clans and cats. If there’s this big war happening with powers in four clans. What’s happening in the other clans? Do they just not notice? I’m just curious. I’m not saying that that it can’t happen that way. Where the other clans just do t notice. It just seems unlikely with how much cross clan plotting there is. (Almost like gossip if that makes sense? I haven’t read into the Enchanted Forest plot so idk really what’s happening there)
I agree with Spot. I love creativity and how the clans have developed! Hades! Even WIC has changed many times and I learned that mostly just by doing the history of the staff for it for like the last month. Changes is great. But not always in not in every way. Things have to be thought through. Sometimes things can be taken too far and we need to realize that. Which is what’s happened here with this thread. Someone had a concern and brought it forward, this pausing the creativity to make sure we’re all on the same page.
Thanks for commenting, Pao! Don't worry about it being stream of consciousness, it's the most honest way of writing xD I think I can answer some of your questions.
When did the Sun God eat Wanheda? I know who the last staff of AL was. I was apart fo it so I know it wasn’t us who made that decision for it to be eaten. And if it was, I knew nothing about it as the Medicine Cat staff member.
Okay, so this was when I was having my second mental breakdown wasn't active on the site, but IIRC it was after I stepped down and once the group had already been effectively deleted from the site, and also with permission of Ashenfate, who created AL in the first place. Perhaps that's something else to discuss—I think I had already stepped down right before the deletion so in my opinion I lost my right to participate in that decision, but perhaps you should've been consulted, as the last remaining staff member for deletion? I'm not sure what the others think, and since I wasn't active, I can't speak for anyone else's decision-making process or the timeline of events.
What’s going on in the other clans during the enchanted Forest Plot? It was mentioned somewhere (I’ve read everything and lost track of if someone said it or if it was in the original doc) that’s plots/role play have a ripple effect on other clans and cats. If there’s this big war happening with powers in four clans. What’s happening in the other clans? Do they just not notice? I’m just curious. I’m not saying that that it can’t happen that way. Where the other clans just do t notice. It just seems unlikely with how much cross clan plotting there is. (Almost like gossip if that makes sense? I haven’t read into the Enchanted Forest plot so idk really what’s happening there)
I believe the Forest Clan cats are sworn to secrecy, so that the other Clans don't know about the powers. I'm not sure if it's entirely clear whether that's a, "your cat will be punished if they are caught breaking this rule" type-deal or if it's a, "it's against the rules of the Enchanted Forest to roleplay cats breaking the secrecy agreement at all". Additionally, the powers disappear when you leave the forest. I have Some Thoughts on this, both positive and negative, but at the time of writing the doc I didn't think they were entirely relevant to our argument, and also they weren't fully-formed in my mind yet.
Also, this isn't directed at you Pao, but I want to stress again that this is not intended to be a takedown of the Enchanted Forest specifically. Perhaps our thread title is contributing to this somewhat, and I'll take the blame for that because iirc ian first put the title as Enchantment and Disenchantment and I said WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU IT'S OBVIOUSLY DISENCHANTED WITH ENCHANTMENT, IT'S RIGHT THERE. And I still think it's a catchy title.
No problem, I'll just wait to talk to you in pm so you can answer my questions and I answer yours and all that good stuff! And yes because of the title it is impossible for you to say that this isn't specifically about the Enchanted Forest when you labeled it as such ^-^'
Hey Pao, thanks for your feedback, especially about the demi-gods. I gotta say it's impressive that you typed all of this from your phone, I'd be struggling! lol
I am just a little confused on why you're against powers since WinterClan has quite a few already with crystal medicine and witches, but I can assure you that we do have rules! I understand you must have had a lot to read from the ten pages and all of the replies on the discussion, but if you look under the ForestClan page you can find that there are a list of rules and one of those rules is no, manipulation, shape shifting, all mighty, or mental powers. So translation, no fire breathing, turning into wolves, atom control, mind reading, or flying allowed (Cause I promised you long ago that cat shall never fly on Classic ;D). We will also be adding more rules as the trial run continues to work out any kinks that might happen along the way!
The crystals we use aren’t magic. It’s more of a you believe in it so it must work kind fo thing. Like how essential oils are seen or even actual crystals. You believe it works so it does. There’s no actual magic to them.
Ye auf was a struggle typing it all on my phone. I texted it to myself first to make it a little easier to read and type
