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I believe that with a reboot of the site, there must be a voting system for the staff of the site. this includes administration as well as helper moderators, just like we have right now. in order for there to not just be more trust within the websites community but better communication. with this, would come terms to staff roles including administration.
we can talk about how long each term should be, as well as how and where administrators and mods can be voted from.
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POSTEDAug 21, 2019 16:22:05 GMT -5 TO Ideas & Suggestions
Okay so an idea I had for staff that I had posted earlier in the mod chat was that I believe there needs to be a helper mod that represents the RUs and Deputies and the majority of the population. This Helper Mod would be nominated and strictly voted on by everyone that is not a mod or admin. This would be the person you could go to if you feel like your voice is not being heard. If RUs believe that this person is not representing them enough they would be demoted. I was thinking that is person cannot hold a leadership position? While they would be able to hold a deputy position the moment they become leader a new RU Helper Mod would have to be voted on.
Also looking at sinful's suggestions I honestly have to agree with her. Now I'm not saying omg lets impeach everyone and start over. I mean if it comes to that it comes to that, but I do like the idea of admins having terms. I think its fair honestly and also I believe there does need to be tryouts for successors because I'm honestly not really okay with the idea that admins pick their successors because as Sinful just said they normally pick their friends and then we are back to square one?? I'm not saying all admins do this its just a fair share of the majority do.
Edited Aug 21, 2019 16:32:38 GMT -5 By Deleted
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POSTEDAug 21, 2019 16:22:53 GMT -5 TO Ideas & Suggestions
I believe administrators should have terms in office, just like a President or Prime Minister. The monopolization of power results in there feeling a disconnect, but if the regular user feels that they could have a shot at it, it’s not nearly as closed off.
Just as we have a helper moderator for one year, I believe administrators should serve two terms, each six months long. Then they can be nominated or voted back in by the public should the public see fit.
I would have never become an administrator had Ian not posted tryouts for Offsite Manager, and that’s because past admins always choose their friends as their successors. This sort of favoritism and nepotism is something I’d like to see abolished on this new Classic.
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POSTEDAug 21, 2019 16:34:30 GMT -5 TO Ideas & Suggestions
Okay I've posted this idea. Also to add another thing I think that Communication Admin should stay the same where they've had to be a former admin before, but we could honestly open it up to maybe the RU Helper Mod having a shot that Communication Admin as well??? Because they would also be communicating with then wider population of Classic.
I 100% agree sin. I believe to have a fresh start we need to have total trust within each other and a sense of all belonging rather than how cliquey the site can feel at times. it has in the past before we even left wetpaint. I've had my fair share of that experience from the old days but I don't want to see it being repeated again and again.
"No matter what other people may say, we are the protagonists of the world." - Keji Akaashi
365 posts
Post by rika on Aug 21, 2019 16:40:36 GMT -5
As everyone is stating I am all for what Lee & Sin are stating. There's been a lot of bias in my opinion as far as Admin selection usually goes, depending on the user. RU & Mods aren't given a chance to prove themselves or "Shine" as you'd put it, and instead, friends are promoted etc. With such an important position of Admin, it should not be up to the Admin to choose but instead the users who contribute to making this site equally as active as the Admins.
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POSTEDAug 21, 2019 16:40:50 GMT -5 TO Ideas & Suggestions
I agree with everything you’ve said Ocean, though I do admit it’s a concern to me that we feel we would need a helper mod to act as a bridge between staff and regular users. It’s been a concern to me that Classic needs a Communications Admin to act as a bridge between regular users and admins. That to me spells disconnect and a sense of those with power being placed upon a pedestal, untouchable and unapproachable by the likes of those without power.
Again, this is just an observation of mine. On every site I’ve been on on Proboards, there has never been a need to specify a position made specifically to keep communication flowing. Many times admins share their duties amongst one another, keeping the idea of categorization and you stay in your lane, I’ll stay in mine completely out of the equation.
But understanding that this has how it’s been done for some time now, I’m completely for another bridge.
The long term problem that comes with a system of voting is the fear of voting impacting our website.
Perhaps a member says something that a moderator doesn't particularly agree with, but that member has a lot of friends and if they don't agree with that members cause/ argument they know they might not get voted in again. So instead they choose to agree despite it going against their belief or worse against the communities beliefs.
Currently there's a fear of losing power for doing wrong. With voting, there can be a fear of losing power through doing right.
I was made admin through popular demand when Baewolf asked for suggestions as well as Prim. One of the major reasons admins and leaders choose who their successor should be is in order for them to get along and work appropriately. I do not want a corrupt society where our community has leaders and admins who are pressured by popularity to get along and make decisions never knowing whether that'll end their career just because of separate opinions.
Honestly, I think it's fine the way it is. I dont think there should be terms. Faith, Quinn, Jet, and a few others have done a lot for the site and have been here for a long time and have a lot of experience. I'd feel much better having someone who has had a long time experience being an admin then switching them out and having new people who dont have much of a clue become admins without a guidance admin. And by the time they get used to being admins, they might have to step down. I think it's too much and should be left alone.
However, I do think a vote for a new admin and mod is a great idea so that there are no favoritism.
Also, I really love the idea of a Peace Keeper Helper Mod that can help people if they are struggling with something! And I think that would be a good vote!
"No matter what other people may say, we are the protagonists of the world." - Keji Akaashi
365 posts
Post by rika on Aug 21, 2019 16:44:45 GMT -5
But the problem still lies in that logic, Faith, that friends are only voted in. That's what makes people uncomfortable; the lack of unbiased opinion in the Admin team. Admins should be able to get along with everyone, not just a select few they are friends with. While I agree its easier to get along with your staff, its also good to have someone who will actively challenge your viewpoint so that you can both reach a higher ground. The real problem is when users take Criticism as a personal affront.
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POSTEDAug 21, 2019 16:53:10 GMT -5 TO Ideas & Suggestions
While I understand that your successor should be someone that you can get along with, you understand what stigma is associated with that system, correct?
We don't want to continue to watch as Classic is further remaining in purgatory, heading closer and closer to that deep black pit of death. A system based upon joint user acceptance and understanding, an objective system that looks upon the skills of users and their communication with others, rather than how many clans they've led, how long they've led said clans, or if they're their best friend, results in a system that's free of toxicity and poison.
Yes, you would need someone to keep watch and moderate. That's what moderators are for. There was a time moderators weren't simply seen as leaders. They had a purpose. They made sure laws were being followed, that systems weren't being played.
If we want to see a change in Classic for the benefit of all rather than the benefit of a few, we have to look at situations and solutions that may be difficult to swallow. Perhaps this current system of Administration and promotion worked for the past years that Classic has been alive.
It isn't working now. Things change, times evolve. That's natural. I've said that many times. It is far more beneficial to evolve and adapt with said changes, rather than to remain stagnant.
I agree with Rika. At this point, we are all adults here. 18+ years. We should all be able to take a step back and look at situations objectively with adult eyes, rather than continuing to allow personal confrontation to lead us down our paths.
"No matter what other people may say, we are the protagonists of the world." - Keji Akaashi
365 posts
Post by rika on Aug 21, 2019 17:02:02 GMT -5
Also going to quickly add this in because I've brought this up in the past, albeit it might not have been publicly, but terms might be good in a sense. I don't think they should be short persay, but there should definitely be a system so that Admins & Mods can't abuse their powers and/or abuse situations etc. Say how Admins & Mods have been known to "bend a rule" or "find a way around it/find a loophole". That should not be allowed, and when the subject is brought up a response shouldn't be, "Haha thats [@/userhere] for you!"
Cheating a system shouldn't be allowed imo, and should not be joked about or brushed under the rug, just saying.
Post by aberrantfox on Aug 21, 2019 17:03:53 GMT -5
When I chose my successor I chose someone who I really didn't know that well and had only rped with for a while. We not by any means best buddies. I chose them because I felt they were capable, active, and ready for more responsibility. And frankly because they have remained capable admins to this day I do not feel I made a bad decision.
I have already chosen my successor to work with me on the Revamps site and collaborate with. No I really woudlnt call us best friends but I feel they are interested and more than capable of taking over when that time comes because they are working right beside me.
I do recall in the past the admin who was stepping down had chosen a few candidates who they felt were ready to take on their job then those people were voted on by the rus and mods. but it still allowed the admins to train some people and feel they were elaving their position in good capable hands.
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POSTEDAug 21, 2019 17:05:52 GMT -5 TO Ideas & Suggestions
So I've been asked by a few people to come back and give my input on what is being discussed in this thread and another. So I will say what I want to say once, and yall can do what you want with it, whether that's ignore it or actually take it into consideration. The power is yours.
I'm letting yall know now that many of the members who left will not return with just new clans. The whole system needs to be changed, and we can argue all day about how the site is a democracy, but in reality it's not. We all just choose our friends for high positions. Even I've been guilty of it in the past.
This being said the whole staff needs to be demoted. The administrators, the moderators, and the helper moderators. I know people don't want to give up their power, but as a member mentioned in the survey that I kind of agree with, we can make new clans all day but the problem lies deeper then that. So, if we really want people to come back and for the drama to stop, the whole staff needs to be demoted and voted in. We start by making the new clans where the current staff can stay to help with that process, then we have an actual vote on who should be leader. Have the leaders choose their staff with tryouts, because to vote in every single staff position would just be too much. Then vote in like 5 helper moderators who don't have leadership positions. In all seriousness, we need helper moderators desperately. Right now we don't have anyone that is a helper moderator that we can lean on to help a deputy who doesn't know how to lead yet or to temporarily take over a clan that might be staffless. Then vote in the admins.
All this being said, it seems staff members are scared of losing their positions or scared they won't be voted back in instead of looking at the bigger picture, plus if you're doing a good job then why are you so scared? If majority thinks you're doing good they will vote you back in.
Also, I don't agree with an RU helper moderator, because one person can't speak for everyone. Their vote would only count as one vote, and that's just too much pressure on one person. Take it from someone who only came back to speak on behalf of others, they'll just be overtalked and looked down on. I don't want anyone to go through that.
Anyway, that's just my two cents. Take it seriously or not.
While I don't want anyone to feel like we're stripping power from them, I think that is what this site needs. A fresh start, a reset button. I don't know the exact order in which things should be done- perhaps we should vote in Admins/Mods first to help oversee settings on the site.
But I feel there has been a power gap between RUs and Admins for too long, and allowing the RUs to choose their Administrators and Moderators would help with that. It's like an election process, and it would help offset any favoritism from people in positions of power.
I just want to make sure that people don't react out of possessiveness too. Are you holding on to your position because you want it, or because you truly think that the site shouldn't have the chance to start from scratch?