Warrior Cat Clans 2 (WCC2 aka Classic) is a roleplay site inspired by the Warrior series by Erin Hunter. Whether you are a fan of the books or new to the Warrior cats world, WCC2 offers a diverse environment with over a decade’s worth of lore for you - and your characters - to explore. Join us today and become a part of our ongoing story!
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11.06.2022 The site has been transformed into an archive. Thank you for all the memories here!
Here on Classic we understand that sometimes life can get difficult and we struggle. We may need to receive advice, vent, know that we are not alone in our difficult times, or even just have someone listen to what's going on in our lives. In light of these times, we have created the support threads below that are open to all of our members at any time.
Okay so this is my thing. I am a bit hesitant on deleting/merging clans simply because the leaders/staff of those clans put a lot of work into their clan. We definitely have a lot of clans for a sight with not a lot of members, Classic doesn’t have the number of members it used to and I think that’s mainly because the majority of us here are adults with jobs/or in school and because I guess a lot of people just don’t know that Classic exists.
Another thing I’ve noticed is that threads die out rather quickly, or don’t get responded to and lord knows that starting threads is hard. I’m just as guilty with this as I tend to have a burst of activity and then disappear for a while. But that’s really just because I’m busy with work or I have a family/social engagement. When I have the time than I come on here to unwind because I love RPing with everyone. Sometimes though it feels personally that is it may not feel that way for others that if a thread doesn’t have an initial plot to begin with that it just doesn’t acquire any interest and it kinda discourages me from trying to make new threads. I remember back on the old Classic sight I had a thread going on with three people for over 20+ pages just to go see some glowing moss! And we threw random things at each other too and had a few other people responding as well. There isn’t that improv that comes with RP anymore, no more mystery or excitement that something could happen. Everything feels like it has to be planned out now (outside of a plot that is if that makes sense) and it takes away from naturally developing a character and their relationships. There isn’t anything wrong with it necessarily, but I find it hard to naturally develop my characters and their relationships with everyone when everything has to be planned out ahead of time, all the time. Again this could just be me, and that’s fine!
There is also the issue though that may be the wrong word for it I’m sorry I’m not here to offend anyone of more active clans attracting more members and leaving some of the less active clans to fend for themselves. This isn’t exactly a bad thing, it’s great that a clan is that active, but what does that do to the clans that are struggling to be as active? It feels like members again, just what I’ve noticed, it might not be the same for others who have cats in the more active clans are focusing solely on their active clans and kinda leaving their other clans in the dust? Again, I could be wrong and it’s also 9:00 AM where I am and I’m also trying to pay attention to work while I’m typing this.
All I know is, and it might seem selfish, that I don’t want to loose my position in Springclan or even lose Springclan because it may not seem like an active clan. It’s hard when only the same group of people are making and creating threads shoutout to my springclan peeps or even joining with new cats.
I think if we did do a complete rehaul where we wipe the slate clean, I’d want Springclan to come out the way its always been. Maybe instead, close joining threads for a while until space clears up in some of the clans? We used to do it back in 2010 when we had more members, maybe it could help now?
Hey everyone, I’ve come on to be completely transparent with each of you. The truth is that having another overhaul isn’t possible any longer and deleting/ merging clans without a criteria isn’t in the realm of possibilities for us on Classic.
As someone who was in charge of the last Overhaul we had to sacrifice: 1) Mental health, a lot of our staff members had actual mental breakdowns from the stress 2) Our ability to advertise Classic, for instance right now we can’t advertise Classic while we have a thread talking about possibly deleting and changing everything on the website 3) Our activity went significantly down. The stress on top of being uncertain if an overhaul was happening made the website feel unworthy to rp on when it could all be gone and replaced with new clans so a lot of members stopped roleplaying altogether 4) Motivation. Staff didn’t want to keep up with activity because they weren’t sure if they would stay leader of their clans or be demoted. They didn’t want to plan long term plots because they weren’t sure if their clan would be gone by then. 5) Innovation, our ability to create new things. For instance I wanted to update the Herb Guide, the Afterlife Page, and plan some summer events, but I would have to focus all my energy on the overhaul changes, which means any other projects we want to do for this website are set aside until that is over 6) Our time as people. We had to pour in dozens of hours of our time organizing to make the last overhaul even close to possible. Even when we delegated we still had to oversee everything and would often have to jump in more times than not to help people helping us out. We were forced to work beyond the normal hours we put in because if we didn’t we would draw this out and lose more activity and membership. We had to lose time with our family and friends. We would go from school and/ or work straight to Classic
As staff of Classic, we always try to give you the world. The community of Classic is why we tried out the Overhaul last time. It’s why we only got a few hours of sleep every night while recording Classic’s history for you. We want to give you everything we have in us, but another overhaul or clan merging isn’t possible or negotiable. I hope you all can respect our stance and still have a fun time on Classic.
But if you like world building and innovating new ways to bring up activity I would definitely encourage you to reach out to some of our clan leaders! Every leader is always looking for new plot opportunities and I’m sure they would love to look over your ideas. You can even message me with some Classic event ideas too, a lot of the entertainment that happens on Classic is thanks to suggestions by our members!
Yeah, I had a feeling that this might be the answer. Though before anyone gets up in arms about anything, this is less a resolution to the discussion as it is a confirmation that one of the listed potential options just isn't feasible for us anymore. And even as someone who heard about all the Overhaul Drama secondhand, it didn't sound like a good time, fam, and I completely understand why the Admins would rather not go through that again. The simplest and easier answer really isn't always the best one. The core issue in this discussion is not clan deletion, but rather imbalanced activity. So we need to put our heads together and think about the best ways to improve.
I appreciate the insight your response gives us for the things that went on behind the scenes, and as always I do appreciate all the work the admins put in to ensuring Classic remains a welcoming, flourishing community. The devotion you guys have for the site is unquestionable.
However, that being said, I'm not a big fan of the treatment this discussion has received---primarily because you guys, our Admin team, have had no involvement beyond taking the discussion and moving it behind closed doors, then shutting it down as being non-negotiable. Isn't the goal to create an atmosphere where everyone feels comfortable enough to bring up topics such as these? You can't do that by saying "The admins will look into it" and "It isn't possible." Most of the people participating in this thread are either current or past staff members. We should all be able to have a conversation about this without being dismissed.
The fact that most of the opinions voiced here are people stating that they feel deleting clans is something that should be considered is reason alone for this to become a conversation between everyone. We're all here because we love Classic and want to see it succeed because, hey, we outlived wetpaint/wikifoundry as of today! I get it; deleting clans is hard and scary and generally a last result, but like... We have a clan now that pretty much meets the requirements or is at least close. What are we going to do? Just delete one and have a set of three?
Also, most of the reasons listed were in regards to a total overhaul, but I don't see why clan deletions wouldn't be in the realm of possibilities since, honestly, it wouldn't be that hard. Clans voted for deletion get smited by StarClan, any unlucky survivors migrate to the remaining clans, and from that point a discussion could be opened up about if we should rename the remaining clans. And that's really the main thing I'm calling for in this post: A discussion that everyone is involved in, where all opinions are voiced, heard, and are not brushed off so quickly.
Anyway, I support Classic either way and I'm more than happy to look at ways to help the other clans get a boost, but I think we should be open to having harder conversations in the present rather than waiting until activity gets worse.
Edited Jun 1, 2021 14:09:44 GMT -5 By woof | Reason: I FORGET HOW TO TYPE THINGS
I think that as a former admin as well, I 100% appreciate all you guys do for Classic, because frankly, it's often a hard and somewhat thankless job for sure! You put in hours of work into something that few people appreciate and you guys get the heat when things don't go the right way either, and I don't want to make your job any harder, but I agree with woof, in the sense that we should be able to have this conversation without personal feelings getting in the way.
Obviously I'm not one to talk much since I rejoined, but even since rejoining, I found it hard to RP or plot with people because there's so few of us and when I add someone to whichever clan, there's only so many people in that clan, or I'll suggest to RP and it either means I need to create a new character or someone else will have to, especially since clans have territories/boundaries that can't be crossed and that's an issue that makes me lose a bit of enthusiasm I had for roleplaying, and plenty of other people have their reasons why they think this is a good idea. (AKA audrey wants to force everyone to interact with her and you all will suffer because I say so, woof agrees) We're not saying we need it to be done exactly our way, but I think the point is that we should be looking at this problem for a solution rather than making it a divisive issue between mods/RUs, or different staff against each other, or even pro-deletion vs. anti-deletion.
Frankly we're all just worried about Classic going stagnant, and we all just want it to be more inviting and welcoming to new members and easier to RP with for old/returning/existing members. We're not saying clan deletion is a must, we just want there to be progress and we want our opinions to be heard and validated, and for the decisions to not only be in the hands of the staff, but that everyone else can also help with brainstorming ways to bring back activity! The site, after all, is made of its users both past, current and future, and I can probably say the same for everyone who contributed, that we just want classic to be able to put its best foot forward and to have the highest chance of survival as a site.
It seems strange to me that several moderators have voiced their support for at least talking about this, and then there's a admin decree that this issue is not up for discussion. I mean no disrespect to any of the staff, but I do feel a bit shut out at the moment.
If we want to criticize the overhaul, that's valid. I think it was drawn out for too long (months, if I remember correctly), all to be tossed out the window at the last vote. I have no doubt it put a lot of strain on everyone.
However, just because we handled the overhaul poorly doesn't mean that the motivations behind the overhaul were invalid. We had an activity issue. We still do. We have already been trying creative events, and plots, and thinking of innovative activity raising ideas hasn't helped so far.
Shutting down our valid concerns with a platitude about trying new things to boost activity is dismissive of our concerns and dismissive of the actual issue at hand. We certainly don't have to spend months on another overhaul- that's not what anyone is suggesting. Nobody wants to repeat last time. But the way we did it last time isn't the only way to reduce the number of clans.
I guess if the conversation is going to be shut down before it really begins, there's nothing I can say to change anyone's mind. I just wanted to point out how segregated this issue feels. The users and a few moderators start discussing the issues we're seeing, and the administrative team appears to immediately terminate even the possibility of a discussion. Again, I really do respect all the work the Admin team puts into Classic. I'm just saying we can talk about deleting clans without having an exact repeat of the last overhaul, and saying this is a non-negotiable topic comes off as rather dismissive of our concerns.
I really told myself I wasn't going to respond or get involved, I just came back and so I don't really get a say. But I do have something important that I want to put out there and I think I have a bit of a unique viewpoint. I was LM during the huge vote of deletion or overhaul and all the drama that came to be and now I am a regular RU who has no staff positions to speak of.
Everything I say here is out of the utmost love and respect for my fellow members. I appreciate the care everyone has for classic and its clans and I am proud to be part of this community.
I have been in favor of clan deletion or reorganization, or just some kind of change for a very long time. I agree that there needs to be some kind of change and everything should be regarded as an open discussion with _everyone_ involved. Everyone has good points, there are pros and cons to every idea and every solution.
The only problem I have with this situation is that we can talk about clan deletion and overhaul as much as we want and pretend like it won't adversely affect anything, but it will. We have already seen what happens when we put the site in limbo and it's not good for anyone. RUs like myself feel unwelcome and staff feel like they must further close ranks to help protect each other and the site. Some very nasty things have been said about our staff in the past and this is never okay. We put a lot of duties and expectations on admins in particular and no matter what it is never regarded as being good enough. The reality is that if we do a site overhaul the admins will he left with the bulk of the work and sometimes people willingly volunteer, but not often. Sometimes it's like pulling teeth to get a little help as an admin. This was my experience, anyways. While others may perceive the admins as trying to be secretive and closeted they really are trying to do what's best for the site and best for them as individuals. I have known most of them for a long time, as have many of you, so keep in mind what you know about them and how much work they do for FREE because they VOLUNTEER their time.
Faith is right about mental health, the last overhaul had an awful affect on the majority of classic users, particularly staff. We were talking each other out of stepping down daily and for me I had to leave classic entirely because the stress just ended up being too much for me. Some very nasty things were said publicly about me and I could not let them go. It ruined my confidence and made me feel unwelcomed as a whole. I know I was not the only one.
If we want change we can't just put everything on a couple of people and give them some broad ideas and never be happy with the result. At some point enough is enough. There seems to be enough division throughout the site that other options besides deletion need to be explored first and we need to get creative.
Get creative! You all have such wonderful minds and ideas. You make these amazing worlds and characters. I have been role-playing since 2009 and I'm still amazed by all the fantastic things yall do every single day.
If we want change we need to create it, not demand it. Many of you are site leaders and staff. You have power to create change. Trickledown change does not work. If you want to see more activity then make sure you're creating plots and actually responding to threads. Many of us here, myself included, are guilty of making threads and never responding. If you're an RU and want to see some change then voice it! If you want more activity then show it by being active.
We are all people with lives and that's okay. We don't have to be on every second or every day. I know im not, it's not realistic and we all k ow that. Let classic be a fun, safe harbor. Let the clans exist without so much pressure to always be perfect or perform perform perform. Everyone here is someone with a life, feelings, and an overall goodwill for classic. Nobody wants the site to fail.
Additionally, I think leaders need to branch out and invite people to roleplay with them or invite them into threads. They are often seen as unapproachable or untouchable. Part of being a leader or any clan staff is taking that extra mile to invite activity as well. That's what being a leader is about. Don't sit on a pedestal and get down there and roleplay. Activity will fluctuate, thats normal and natural, but I know every single one of you cares deeply for your clan.
I truly believe everyone is doing their best but we should take some other steps for activity before deciding that overhauling everything or deleting half of the clans is the next measure to take.
I'm sorry for my tough love, but this is how I am currently perceiving the site as someone who's been here a long time and am once again returning after a long break.
I’m sorry you all feel put off! I was actually sick for a few days and wanted to give 100% to this discussion so I waited to feel better and the rest of my staff wanted my input before saying anything. But I’m doing a lot better today!
When I saw everyone suggesting overhaul and merging/ deletion, it made me feel the urgency to make sure to inform you as soon as possible that those weren’t options that we had the time or resources to do so we could move onto other solutions. Otherwise it would have felt rude to not be transparent about it until you completed brainstorming and only then letting everyone know it’s not possible. It was an error on my part if the message took a different tone for you than anything but informative and I’m sorry you felt dismissed by it.
But I assure you that you can absolutely have a conversation about activity! I don’t think I saw anyone mention that anyone couldn’t, correct? (I mean if someone said so let me know xD). And yes, clan deletion is in the realm of possibility! What isn’t in the realm of possibility is clan deletion without a written out and approved of criteria by the staff. I hope you still keep suggesting though! But it would be a super big help if we could all think outside of overhaul and clan deletion since those aren’t feasible for our website to do.
What can we all do to boost clan activity without overhauling or clan deletion/ merging? Just because I can't compromise with staff members mental health, innovations, and the other lists of things, doesn't mean there aren't other options out there! ^-^
I think the admins are right to shut down talks of an overhaul before it goes too far because as someone who was around during the overhaul, it was hell on everyone's mental health. And as a mod right now, I don't want to be in the admins team shoes right now.
I have my gripes with the admin team, but bringing back up an overhaul is not the solution.
Everyone here discussing as far as I can tell was here during the overhaul, guess what we tried it, and it didn't pass go and it didn't collect 200 dollars. And the admin team gave it their absolute 110% when we tried it, and it just didn't happen.
I understand you guys are wanting to throw out solutions but Faith has laid out the reasons why we just can't do it. Racer, Faith, Cleaver, Honey and Jadie have poured their hearts and souls into Classic, they're not shutting you down because they just don't want to do it.
There are very serious ramifications and long reaching effects that attempting an overhaul causes, and we can say that because we've been there before.
I know some people are recently returned or weren't there when it happened, but we gave it our best.
And I don't think the overhaul was 'handled poorly' sunlight . It just straight up didn't work. I don't remember all the details but I know everyone was on board with how it was carried out. Everyone created clans, and everyone did their damnedest but as it turned out people just weren't ready to give up their clans that they've built over the years.
Activity is an issue, but I know for certain, overhauling isn't an option.
dm me if you want to listen to me ramble about the interstellar soundtrack
2,314 posts
Post by achromatic on Jun 1, 2021 15:16:53 GMT -5
@faith
yeah no worries! I'm glad you're feeling better!
I totally understand that it's a lot of time and effort in doing something drastic, and I'm not saying that it needs to be done but if you guys need help, we're always here to try our best and contribute to whatever needs doing! I might not be staff but I love helping out when I can, and I'm sure many of our users feel the same sentiment. I understand that a lot of you are also speaking as former mods and admins who felt like they were out of their depth, and trust me, I relate heavily to that too, but with that, I guess what I'm saying is that a lot of the people who are willing to contribute and help are also former admins! They want to do something to help you guys out too!
Whenever there's a discussion where everyone gets to chat and find a solution to, more often that not, everyone wants to pitch in and help relieve the weight off the admins' shoulders too, which is why I think having further conversations and keeping this as a possibility instead of shutting it down immediately might actually create a better working environment where the weight of the responsibility for clans won't lie only on their staff, but on the whole site. In my experience, giving some responsibility to users and allowing RUs to contribute to conversations can allow for a closer knit community and it eradicates some of the stigma that comes with leaders who are inactive/overwhelmed, and yes, I agree, there's other ways to boost activity but some of the other comments here–especially those implying that just because I wasn't an active user during the overhaul, that I don't get a valid say in this–isn't helping.
I think uniqcrim has a good points, but one of the concerns, as per my last comment, is that when I do create characters and I want to start out, I can ask if anyone wants plots but a lot of people will simply not have characters in the clan I choose. Plots are great but open threads really develop some of the initial personality and how I want to write a certain character, and with everyone spread thin, we get a lot of private threads and not a lot of open threads or in general, people to RP with in certain clans. What can we do to solve that?
First, I would like to say that I do not appreciate how the admins have handled this situation. Shutting down discussions is something that has happened too often lately, and it is only making users upset. It is not how an admin team should behave.
Personally, I believe that an overhaul would go over better than deleting or merging clans. As I've mentioned before, deleting a set of clans isn't really an option, as doing so will cause many users to leave the site. Just over the course of this discussion, we have lost members. I don't believe that an overhaul is too drastic at this point, since we need some sort of change. Personally, during the last overhaul, all I felt was excitement for something new, something that I had a hand in creating.
A year and a half ago we had the discussion about an overhaul. People saw something that needed to be fixed, and did their best to help. Unfortunately, the process was not run the best and had too many flaws. Looking back on it, I'm glad that it didn't happen, but that's merely because every clan/group chosen, other than one or two, were not traditional. We would need actual clans in order for this to work, but everyone had wanted to create a group because they are more fun. I have already mentioned how this could go better in my second post on the first page.
The thing is, yes, we may be jumping the gun here with our ideas for solutions, but what has changed since that last overhaul vote? What has been done to remedy the problem that everyone knew existed? I am not an admin, and I do not know what they do behind closed doors, but it sincerely doesn't seem like much to me. I know Racer has been busy with the history project, but she has also been finding places to advertise and attempting to make the site more new-member friendly. But what have the others been doing to help? I have no idea, and maybe that's the problem.
At this point, I believe that we need something drastic for anything to change.
Most importantly- I apologize for this being so long, and possibly harsh, and I know that not everyone will support my thoughts about the overhaul, but that's how I personally believe things would better. Please, do continue to share any ideas that you have! This is an open discussion, and I absolutely love everything that you guys have come up with so far. Talking is the best way for things to start to change, even if you don't think your opinion will be popular or go over well. All opinions matter and should be heard.
achromatic I'm not saying you can't say what you want, but at some point someone just has to say 'Yeah overhauling isn't happening because it's bad for everyone' that's like someone suggesting that you could swim through ice water to get across the river rather than opt to build a bridge or boat, and where someone just has to say 'no that's not going to be helpful or beneficial you're just going to get a cold or worse.'
The reason we're saying no to an overhaul is because we've seen the effects on the site and on its members, and we're telling you, the cons greatly outweigh the pros because we've been through it before.
I do think uniqcrim is right that people should maybe take the initiative and reach out to a leader of their respective clan or any member of the staff, they're all listed in the allegiances. I get that some people really like only certain clans, which is why I'm reluctant for us to just delete clans because someone you wanted to rp with wasn't in that clan.
The best decision I ever made was reaching out to faith to rp with her cat in DayClan and from there I created one of my favorite characters.
Go to your leaders with your plots, if you have a character you want to start from scratch talk to your clan leaders. We will be overjoyed to have a message from someone saying 'hey I'm trying something new, can you help me get started'
Every clan is required to have a clan leader, that is someone you should go to if no one else is biting on the plot boards and you're like 'I really want to go to xclan or xgroup' then go to the leader and ask them for help.
I think that while we do have some regulars that are on more often than others, dropping a leader a message asking for something from them is super important.
Maybe we should start making threads where leaders just have a thread where you ask them anything, learn about them, or ask to make an rp with them, or help placing their cat.
I get that people have their preferred roleplaying friends but I don't think that should be a reason to take away someone's favorite clan especially when it doesn't meet the deletion requirements completely.
I think it's valid for them to say we can't overhaul.
Also the thing with how the overhaul went the clans we wound up with wasn't any amount of planning. People put out what they wanted to make, and people picked what they wanted to pick if an overhaul went through.
You can't have it both ways where you get an overhaul and then can in turn say 'well people should make more traditional clans' because otherwise you're going to get the same result with people feeling like they're forced to not go balls to the wall like they could with the design a clan contest.
Which was in my opinion the only good thing to come out of all the overhaul stuff, seeing everyone be really creative was nice.
But the reality is you either have what people make, or you stick with what you've got. You can't have it both ways. And if you try to put restrictions on it then people are going to want to stick with what they've got because the traditional clans we already have have a lot of lore, family trees and what not.
And as someone who was there for the overhaul how should it have been handled? We had to:
-Come up with a plot to explain the overhaul
-Had to give everyone ample amount of time to come up with their clans
-Had to make sure there was code for people to use to make their clan pages.
-Still maintain the site on top of it.
The overhaul proceedings went from September 2018 to December 2018 that's 3 months, and everyone having their own lives, school and stress on top of preparing an overhaul. There was no way to make it faster because they were already as Faith noted taking from every category as noted before and those bullet points all were handled and maintained by the admins.
I know some people were mentioning 'well we need to force people into different clans' or get people to mix it up and interact more.
We could still have an apocalypse level event that forces characters into different clans and mixes things up.
Maybe there's a massive upheaval or something and it forces clans to come together into close spaces so for a time you've got everyone really close and cramped.
Or something happens where the clans are stuck and instead you've got cats from other clans thrust into different clans.
Submit your cat to be thrown into a random number generator and see where they get spat out, make it a twister where your cats get mixed up and dumped where they fall.
We can have big upheaval, but the thing is not everyone wants big upheaval. I know people tell me 'no I want slice of life stuff'
I have been dying to have a war with all of the clans, but so far it hasn't happened T.T
And I know people are super creative, please just go to the leader of a clan and say 'hey I want this in this clan'
We are dying for feedback, we aren't putting down the questions, comments and concerns for our health, if you feel there is something you want tell us.
Want new traditions, throw out suggestions.
Want a plot? Message the leader.
We can all be messaged, and all of us have to make our name searchable by the members list. We can't help you if you don't come and poke us.
I only briefly touched on it in my second post, with only a sentence, but I believe it should have been more organized and put-together. Two main things that would have solved that is a vote on clan name themes, so that they weren't all over the place and had some sort of relation, and allowing people to make both a clan and a group. It would have taken up more time, yes, but these things take time anyway.
It didn't have to have as bad results as it did. I know you were an admin during the time, so you know far more about running it than I do, but I still believe there would have been better ways. The admins could have also discussed it with staff or the site as a whole. Or, as achromatic said, "I guess what I'm saying is that a lot of the people who are willing to contribute and help are also former admins! They want to do something to help you guys out too!"
I'm no longer saying clan-deletion is necessary, I'm asking what we can do to resolve the issue of activity and 'being spread-thin' without doing so. Yes, leaders are obligated to reply, but I guess all I'm saying is that there are definitely leaders who have been struggling with activity and it's pretty difficult to be active all on your own or with the same few people you constantly RP with. All I'm saying is, what other ways can we boost activity that doesn't 1) completely relying on literally the one person leading a clan and 2) that makes it welcoming to new users who might not know how or feel comfortable in reaching out?
I personally posted a bunch of open threads on the discord and asked a bunch of people if they wanted to RP, and asked on the roleplay sections/forums, made a thread asking for plots, all of that and I still barely got any replies. When it's implied that I, as an RU, either don't know enough about classic to understand things, or am not trying hard enough, it upsets me because this shouldn't be on me entirely, and it shouldn't be some competition of 'who's been here longer' or 'who's more active' because I immediately feel like I need to prove that I was an active user in the past. Dragging up my own resume isn't conductive to this kind of conversation.
Anyways, I think a good way to start is to list out what we find difficult with being active with, and brainstorm on solutions to each of those problems. Of course, you know I'm pro-deletion, but that shouldn't matter. We're all trying to help classic here,whether we're RUs, mods, or admins. I like @lavellan's line of question. What's changed since the last overhaul? What have we been doing better, and what hasn't changed? What makes it difficult to be active, and what makes roleplaying easy for you?
To make it clear, I am not pushing for an overhaul right now. I enjoy discussions, and love to see what other people come up with! It's just that, if it comes down to a choice between deletion, merging, or overhaul, I believe an overhaul would be the best choice.
I'll have to second lavellan. Not everyone was on board with the way it was run- I too think it was a little disorganized, though it inspired amazing creativity!
I think it's a little simplistic to say if we want better activity, we need to roleplay more. That's too easy of a solution, and if it hasn't worked for the past two years it isn't going to work now. We don't have enough active clan leaders to just message them to plot, and if I've roleplayed with open threads or people in higher positions, the threads often fizzled out on their end. I am fairly active, and I don't think that's enough in this instance. Like audrey said, she's trying to roleplay- and very few people are responding to her request.
While I do support reducing the number of clans, I am open to hearing other suggestions before saying that's necessary. I'm just not seeing any suggestions that I think will actually help, as they've all been tried before and either failed, or were implemented years ago when we had more members.
I don't agree, because even if we did vote on themes, that's still just themes, that doesn't necessarily guarantee that you'll get people making a clan that's interesting and that takes away a lot of the creativity and fun that I remember fondly with DAC.
But the bigger thing is we didn't have more time.
We took too much longer the site would've been stuck in limbo for longer, which would've lost us far more users, put more stress on leaders who were already stuck going 'well what's the point if my clan's gonna be gone anyways'
And if you start restricting the creativity of DAC, what do you do when people have conflicts because they wanted to do xclan a certain way but it didn't work out because it doesn't mesh with the other clan.
There's good ideas, but then you have to remember that good ideas don't always mean good execution.
There's a saying in my field that architects design the buildings, and then the contractors are the ones that make sure it stands up.
When the overhaul happened we were given grand designs and overarching goals and things that everyone wanted, but at the end of the day the admins are unpaid contractors who had to make sure the darn thing didn't fall over because something was missed.
The admins did the best they could and Faith already expressed why we didn't have more time and I've hit on why we didn't do 'themes' because then that would've limited the fun people had with DAC. And then also, there's the risk if we picked themes then what you had to get 4 people to make a group to agree to a theme?
There's a reason it didn't happen because there was nothing stopping anyone from collaborating and making four clans that all meshed together. or even a pair of clans.
Because DAC was for everyone to design to their hearts content and that was what made it great, it we started to overcomplicate it with voting on themese and the like it just wouldn't have worked because it would've put more restrictions and taken away the only fun thing we had with the whole mess.
At this point we are beating a dead horse. People are saying the overhaul which happened a year and a half ago was disorganized and I can agree with that as an admin at the time and that's because everything was crazy and disorienting and there was more than one thing going on at the time. Everyone was stretched thin and did the best they could.
There was a site wide vote in which everyone's opinion was taken into account and countless threads. There was so much going on and many people creating chaos across the board. There was no chance for organization from the get go on that one because people were just trying to hold onto their sanity and everyone's mental health absolutely plummeted.
You're correct in that there is not a simple solution and it isn't as easy as "roleplay more" but the reality is that if people don't want to roleplay then they won't. Overhaul and deletion takes a long time and what we saw before is then no one wanted to roleplay at all and getting classic back on its feet was hard enough.
I genuinely don't believe classic could survive that again. We keep jumping straight to deletion and overhaul. I just don't think it's realistic. I personally believe if we do that again classic will fall apart and we may not be able to put it back together again.
A lot of members left, some came back but not everyone. Our membership is struggling as it is and I don't think creating an "all-new" classic is going to remedy that. A lot of us come back because this is our home and childhood and if we delete everything that's left of that will we really stay or come back? Or will we just be wishing for the old classic back?
Something new is definitely exciting and I would definitely encourage it, maybe we can change up some of our existing clans, but I don't think classic will survive an overhaul.
No matter how any group of admins has handled anything people say it's not enough. What _exactly_ re you expecting of them then? When will it be enough, if ever? Please be realistic while also expressing yourself. I love hearing everyone's opinions but we need to stop throwing out broad ideas and start creating detailed, targeted solutions. Be more specific.
I hear that threads aren't being replied too, frankly I'm uncomfortable responding to open threads if I don't know that person well. I wonder, Are they actually going to respond or am I wasting my time? I have open threads that have never been responded to as well. We could try and figure out what about these threads is discouraging people because I'm sure we all have our reasons why and I'd love to know and maybe it will give us some insights.
